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Kr1z    Posts / Contact
12/04/2011 17:38  Quote Reply
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Kr1z
Sign-up: 27/08/2009
Level 2
Posts: 10
Member
Howdy folkes, an idea just popped into my head!

In order to get more people to actively review here in the AP, the following might just work:

Limit the initial number of songs that people can submit.
E.g. each gets 2 free song spots.
Then, when a user reviews some songs and gets rated as helpful, the user has earned a new song spot :)

The idea is based on the system applied in some other communities, where you have to be active (in a useful way) before you unlock some privileges.

So yeh, maybe after refining this whole idea it might just give TAP a boost?

Whatcha think? Or is this idea not necessary atm?
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nitebreed    Posts / Contact
12/04/2011 21:49  Quote Reply
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nitebreed
Sign-up: 12/04/2011
Level 1
Posts: 2
Member
I can see where you're coming from...

While it seems like it would be a good and helpful idea for the community... It could also bring it downhill.

Think about this, what if somebody is too lazy to review, and they are sick of having to review to earn that other slot to submit a song?
So they'll just say fuck this, and go somewhere else to submit it.
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Dj-Zexus    Posts / Contact
12/04/2011 21:57  Quote Reply
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Dj-Zexus
Sign-up: 11/05/2010
Level 1
Posts: 22
Member
I agree. It's a good idea structurally , but I think people would find it annoying.
I know I, for one, wouldn't enjoy it.

Also, what if somebody lacks the experience to write a helpful review?
They'd be stuck in a limbo.
Couldn't review due to lack of experience but couldn't gain experience due to lack of uploads.
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TeHLoY    Posts / Contact
13/04/2011 4:22  Quote Reply
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TeHLoY
Sign-up: 05/09/2010
Level 2
Posts: 4
Member
Honestly, the only flaw in this system is the audience. I notice that it is only the musicians that actually review each other's songs. And not all people who post songs review other songs.

There are less reviewers than people who make songs, so we depend on these reviewers to make a large number of reviews to help balance this site.
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Chozz    Posts / Contact
13/04/2011 5:23  Quote Reply
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Chozz
Sign-up: 11/05/2010
Level 4
Posts: 53
Member
At April 13, 2011 at 3:22, TeHLoY wrote:


There are less reviewers than people who make songs, so we depend on these reviewers to make a large number of reviews to help balance this site.


This. And quite honestly the reviewers dont always have time to sit and listen to every song and give it a detailed review.

I tried to do 1 review every other day sort of thing. But it starts to get tedious when you've got 20 songs yourself without a review on it.
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Kr1z    Posts / Contact
13/04/2011 6:50  Quote Reply
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Kr1z
Sign-up: 27/08/2009
Level 2
Posts: 10
Member
A good example where this system works very well is stackoverflow.com
People can ask and answer questions about programming.
When contributing in a helpful way, you earn priviliges (see list) :)
Its what make the people contribute and i thought of it as a challenge, and it was rewarding when i gathered some xp :)
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jnr1114    Posts / Contact
13/04/2011 10:31  Quote Reply
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jnr1114
Sign-up: 26/05/2010
Level 4
Posts: 47
Member
At April 13, 2011 at 5:50, Kr1z wrote:
A good example where this system works very well is stackoverflow.com
People can ask and answer questions about programming.
When contributing in a helpful way, you earn priviliges (see list) :)
Its what make the people contribute and i thought of it as a challenge, and it was rewarding when i gathered some xp :)


That wouldn't work. 1/4 of the people here have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to reviewing music. They'd type in 40 characters and call it a review so they can earn a spot.
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Kr1z    Posts / Contact
13/04/2011 13:14  Quote Reply
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Kr1z
Sign-up: 27/08/2009
Level 2
Posts: 10
Member
At April 13, 2011 at 9:31, jnr1114 wrote:
At April 13, 2011 at 5:50, Kr1z wrote:
A good example where this system works very well is stackoverflow.com
People can ask and answer questions about programming.
When contributing in a helpful way, you earn priviliges (see list) :)
Its what make the people contribute and i thought of it as a challenge, and it was rewarding when i gathered some xp :)


That wouldn't work. 1/4 of the people here have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to reviewing music. They'd type in 40 characters and call it a review so they can earn a spot.


Indeed that doesn't work :) The system I propose is one where you get xp or whatever privileges after others have rated your activity as useful. And I gotta say the system works very well on stackoverflow.com.
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TIMarbury    Posts / Contact
14/04/2011 4:02  Quote Reply
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TIMarbury
Sign-up: 14/04/2011
Level 2
Posts: 7
Member
yea we need something like that here... maybe increase exp for reviews that are voted useful, so per useful vote you gain x amount of exp and that relates to your voting power to be higher. In terms of song slots.. that works as well but some people that come here might not produce music so there needs to be something in it for them as well.. another idea is to set a limit of at least 5 song reviews a week or your voting power beings to drop.

another clever idea is to make it so you can not download any songs unless you

1) are a member
2) reach a certain quota of useful reviews

so say per useful review you can download 3 songs.. or something since i bet most of the people here will want a free download and paying with reviews is the only way i can see people being to review like mad and really start to structure the ranking of songs.

Edit (April 14, 2011 3:05) :

relating to people not being able to make useful reviews.. maybe a simple that song is great i like the melody is enough for a useful review.. or maybe the review can be a scale from very helpful, to not helpful so people who just say it was good i love it can still get some points for leaving a comment or w.e. i think the downloading idea is the best to keep people commenting and reviewing.
HI I AM NOT COOL
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Chozz    Posts / Contact
14/04/2011 6:55  Quote Reply
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Chozz
Sign-up: 11/05/2010
Level 4
Posts: 53
Member
By the way, I posted this

I reckon if there is a list that shows the songs that haven't been reviewed, that it should show songs at random (That have no reviews). That way there would be no bias, no older/ newer ( No one waiting for ageeeeeeeees for some feed back, and feedback I think is a critical part of production). Maybe even a point bonus would be a plus. i'd hate it to turn to like the newgrounds audio portal. With the zero blammers and crappy reviews. Thats why the system at the moment is real good. I've kinda given up on the newgrounds audio portal. All the people here are serious about it, or wanting to learn/ enjoy themselves as far as i can tell. But there's gonna be underdogs. And i think everyone should be given that fair oppurtunity, a bit of feedback to keep em going.

In a similar thread here.
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Kr1z    Posts / Contact
17/04/2011 17:27  Quote Reply
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Kr1z
Sign-up: 27/08/2009
Level 2
Posts: 10
Member
I've seen some good suggestions :) This is probably where the topic would end in the NG AP, but here on TAP this is where Mich comes in and actually considers our stuffs :$
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loans    Posts / Contact
17/04/2011 19:46  Quote Reply
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loans
Sign-up: 07/08/2009
Level 5
Posts: 356
Administrator
Mich and I have discussed participation limits similar to the OP. We talked about it for a while. I think we're open to any well-written proposals.

On the subject of limiting downloads, unfortunately that runs completely counter to the spirit of the site. Everything here (for the time being) is released under a creative commons license, making it immediately public domain.
hey guys look at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Mich    Posts / Contact
18/04/2011 6:25  Quote Reply
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Mich
Sign-up: 05/08/2009
Level 4
Posts: 454
Administrator
While I do like the idea to get people to do more on the site, limiting anything won't do much at all at this point in time.

The site gets so little traffic that no-one even remotely reaches any reasonable limit yet, so I doubt we can actually do much like that at the moment. As the site grows, more ideas like this are likely to be implemented, so we can get some sort of chain reaction of activity going. Who knows.

As for TIMarbury's suggestion on more XP for reviews voted helpful:
We actually have a somewhat "hidden" review points system in place. It's a statistic that doesn't mean much on its own, hence why we've decided to hide it from user pages. However, this statistic is used in calculating one's voting power.

Therefore, it cancels out the need to give more XP for helpful reviews, as you're already awarded for these. Just not so... visibly, I suppose. Writing helpful reviews simply makes your influence in scoring submissions (by reviewing again) bigger, as well as your influence in rating others' reviews.

Now, to get unreviewed submissions reviewed, I guess I should really make work of that "overlooked" section in the portal. What do y'all thing about this: Restrict the weekly best to only ten submissions, and have a random set of ten non-reviewed songs in a list under the weekly best? The non-reviewed songs would be random every time you load the portal page. They would be the submissions that are over a week old.

Sound good?

On another note, I'd like to thank you all for providing ideas and suggestions.
I'll be moving this to the help and feedback forum, as that's where it actually belongs.
Check out my latest trance track: 'Once in a While' :: Also, check out my soundtrack-ish ambient tune 'Chiron' | Also, don't believe TheCoreMan, I was the first to have a signature!
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Kr1z    Posts / Contact
18/04/2011 8:26  Quote Reply
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Kr1z
Sign-up: 27/08/2009
Level 2
Posts: 10
Member
At April 18, 2011 at 5:25, Mich wrote:
Now, to get unreviewed submissions reviewed, I guess I should really make work of that "overlooked" section in the portal. What do y'all thing about this: Restrict the weekly best to only ten submissions, and have a random set of ten non-reviewed songs in a list under the weekly best? The non-reviewed songs would be random every time you load the portal page. They would be the submissions that are over a week old.


Sounds good to me ;)
It's not like there's more than 10 weekly bests anyway atm :)
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Mich    Posts / Contact
18/04/2011 8:36  Quote Reply
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Mich
Sign-up: 05/08/2009
Level 4
Posts: 454
Administrator
At April 18, 2011 at 7:26, Kr1z wrote:
Sounds good to me ;)
It's not like there's more than 10 weekly bests anyway atm :)


Exactly my thoughts. :p

I'm currently working on testing the new list thing locally, I'll probably push it online in an hour or something.
Edit (April 18, 2011 8:26) :

And it's up, despite my internet acting like an annoying child.
Check out my latest trance track: 'Once in a While' :: Also, check out my soundtrack-ish ambient tune 'Chiron' | Also, don't believe TheCoreMan, I was the first to have a signature!
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Kr1z    Posts / Contact
18/04/2011 15:05  Quote Reply
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Kr1z
Sign-up: 27/08/2009
Level 2
Posts: 10
Member
At April 18, 2011 at 7:36, Mich wrote:
At April 18, 2011 at 7:26, Kr1z wrote:
Sounds good to me ;)
It's not like there's more than 10 weekly bests anyway atm :)


Exactly my thoughts. :p

I'm currently working on testing the new list thing locally, I'll probably push it online in an hour or something.
Edit (April 18, 2011 8:26) :
And it's up, despite my internet acting like an annoying child.


Glad to have someone around that actually considers our feedback ;)
Yay for TAP & Mich ;)
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TIMarbury    Posts / Contact
18/04/2011 16:12  Quote Reply
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TIMarbury
Sign-up: 14/04/2011
Level 2
Posts: 7
Member
I like that idea and it is working when i loaded the page so good job there. I think you are right about limiting is not gonna help right now. I think we need more promotion on NG or something to get more people over here who are serious. Not exactly sure how to go about promoting successfully yet. Spamming is never the right choice. I'm glad that everything is looking in a positive direction. All we need right now is more traffic i feel...
HI I AM NOT COOL
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Mich    Posts / Contact
18/04/2011 18:50  Quote Reply
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Mich
Sign-up: 05/08/2009
Level 4
Posts: 454
Administrator
At April 18, 2011 at 15:12, TIMarbury wrote:
I like that idea and it is working when i loaded the page so good job there. I think you are right about limiting is not gonna help right now. I think we need more promotion on NG or something to get more people over here who are serious. Not exactly sure how to go about promoting successfully yet. Spamming is never the right choice. I'm glad that everything is looking in a positive direction. All we need right now is more traffic i feel...

I agree that we need more promotion, but to be fair, I don't like promoting on NG all that much. Everyone comes on here and starts comparing with NG, while this is completely separate and we don't at all seek to rival NG.

We've been working with Project Wonderful a bit (the guys that provide the adverts on here, go check out these advertisers, on that note), to get the word out about TAP, but it hasn't really resulted in any new signups yet that I know of.

Some more mouth-to-mouth advertising could work. :)
Check out my latest trance track: 'Once in a While' :: Also, check out my soundtrack-ish ambient tune 'Chiron' | Also, don't believe TheCoreMan, I was the first to have a signature!
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